Comments for Bitter Lemons http://bitter-lemons.com Bringing the Los Angeles Theatre Community closer together. Whether they like it or not. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:21:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 Comment on A Producer and a Critic Walk into a Bar…and Beat the Shit out of Each Other! by John http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/a-producer-and-a-critic-walk-into-a-bar-and-beat-the-shit-out-of-each-other/comment-page-1/#comment-17399 John Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:21:38 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3083#comment-17399 I heard both, the 2nd argument had me until the economic agenda arose because it was the author's polarity showing. Theatre, the telling of stories in that form, has been around a long time, and it is true that opinion shapes art, but critique is a strange grey area because there really is no neutral place to come from. Who decides what gets to be heard? I think the greater issue is how do we adapt ourselves to the Information age, and the plethora of pundits puking? That sense of discriminating awareness is getting buried in a sea of digital vomit, both on the Art side and the Critique side. I think here I side with Colin that the cream will rise, but maybe the question is, on top of what? I heard both, the 2nd argument had me until the economic agenda arose because it was the author’s polarity showing. Theatre, the telling of stories in that form, has been around a long time, and it is true that opinion shapes art, but critique is a strange grey area because there really is no neutral place to come from. Who decides what gets to be heard? I think the greater issue is how do we adapt ourselves to the Information age, and the plethora of pundits puking? That sense of discriminating awareness is getting buried in a sea of digital vomit, both on the Art side and the Critique side. I think here I side with Colin that the cream will rise, but maybe the question is, on top of what?

]]> Comment on The Teaser by Colin Mitchell http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/the-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-17393 Colin Mitchell Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:17:07 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3094#comment-17393 Trevor, that was veritable freight train of thought. And Enci, couldn't agree more. Tease me, for Christmas Sake! Don't force feed me the entire movie! Why am I shouting? Trevor, that was veritable freight train of thought. And Enci, couldn’t agree more. Tease me, for Christmas Sake! Don’t force feed me the entire movie!
Why am I shouting?

]]> Comment on A Producer and a Critic Walk into a Bar…and Beat the Shit out of Each Other! by Colin Mitchell http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/a-producer-and-a-critic-walk-into-a-bar-and-beat-the-shit-out-of-each-other/comment-page-1/#comment-17392 Colin Mitchell Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:15:30 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3083#comment-17392 Thanks, Geoff. Keep up the good work! Thanks, Geoff. Keep up the good work!

]]> Comment on Chip & the Block – The Art of Criticism by Colin Mitchell http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/chip-the-block-the-art-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-17391 Colin Mitchell Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:14:05 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3104#comment-17391 I would like to interject right here that I have nothing to interject right here. Just enjoying such intelligent and important chit-chat here at the Lemon. Warms mi cockles. I would like to interject right here that I have nothing to interject right here. Just enjoying such intelligent and important chit-chat here at the Lemon. Warms mi cockles.

]]> Comment on A Producer and a Critic Walk into a Bar…and Beat the Shit out of Each Other! by Geoff http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/a-producer-and-a-critic-walk-into-a-bar-and-beat-the-shit-out-of-each-other/comment-page-1/#comment-17388 Geoff Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:03:50 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3083#comment-17388 I find the argument disconcerting. I find the conversation thrilling. In my opinion, criticism, good criticism, is, as was said above, a conversation between the critic and the audience, and between the critic and the artist. (I have written about just that on our review site - http://www.latheatrereview.com/2009/11/21/the-conversation/ - and on my personal blog - http://www.tipsonwriting.net/blog/2009/12/day-3-enlightened-criticism/ ) I am extremely hesitant to even approach the idea of a vetting organization for critics rather than the marketplace promoting those that, by their work, prove legitimacy. Would you want a vetting organization to vet producers? Actors? Directors? I think that would bring us very close to an artistic National Socialism (a polite term for totalitarianism.) I agree that there are critics out there, or those that call themselves critics, who have no idea what they're doing and either pan everything, praise everything, or simply cannot put to two thoughts together in a coherent way. These people will not garner readers. That's how capitalism works. The same will happen with theatres that consistently put on inferior productions, they won't get the butts in the seats. Criticism has many purposes. Only one of the many is for the publicity of the artist. (It is one of them, but only one of the many.) I, personally, want a thriving artistic community in Los Angeles. I want one with high standards. I want to contribute to that. How I contribute to that my conflict with a producer, a theatre, a director or an actor. That conflict is not my intention, however. The promotion of art, the discussion of art, the support of art and artistic excellence is. I find the argument disconcerting. I find the conversation thrilling. In my opinion, criticism, good criticism, is, as was said above, a conversation between the critic and the audience, and between the critic and the artist. (I have written about just that on our review site – http://www.latheatrereview.com/2009/11/21/the-conversation/ – and on my personal blog – http://www.tipsonwriting.net/blog/2009/12/day-3-enlightened-criticism/ )

I am extremely hesitant to even approach the idea of a vetting organization for critics rather than the marketplace promoting those that, by their work, prove legitimacy.

Would you want a vetting organization to vet producers? Actors? Directors? I think that would bring us very close to an artistic National Socialism (a polite term for totalitarianism.)

I agree that there are critics out there, or those that call themselves critics, who have no idea what they’re doing and either pan everything, praise everything, or simply cannot put to two thoughts together in a coherent way. These people will not garner readers. That’s how capitalism works. The same will happen with theatres that consistently put on inferior productions, they won’t get the butts in the seats.

Criticism has many purposes. Only one of the many is for the publicity of the artist. (It is one of them, but only one of the many.) I, personally, want a thriving artistic community in Los Angeles. I want one with high standards. I want to contribute to that. How I contribute to that my conflict with a producer, a theatre, a director or an actor. That conflict is not my intention, however. The promotion of art, the discussion of art, the support of art and artistic excellence is.

]]> Comment on Chip & the Block – The Art of Criticism by John http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/chip-the-block-the-art-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-17387 John Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:08:40 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3104#comment-17387 Also as an aside, it is important for me to point out that this blog is an ongoing dialog between a 48 year old musician and his 17 year old actor son. That this conversation goes on daily between us, and that each blog is a captured moment, well 15 minutes really, but a captured slice of a conversation we have been having for 17 years now. Our intention is to move out into the community with these ideas, and see what can be done during these challenging times to create support and dialog amongst other artists. Also as an aside, it is important for me to point out that this blog is an ongoing dialog between a 48 year old musician and his 17 year old actor son. That this conversation goes on daily between us, and that each blog is a captured moment, well 15 minutes really, but a captured slice of a conversation we have been having for 17 years now. Our intention is to move out into the community with these ideas, and see what can be done during these challenging times to create support and dialog amongst other artists.

]]> Comment on Chip & the Block – The Art of Criticism by John http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/chip-the-block-the-art-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-17386 John Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:03:38 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3104#comment-17386 Lol better yet let's organize a guerilla theatre group to break into song in a public place like Union Station! Again thanks for participating in the dialog! Stay involved! Lol better yet let’s organize a guerilla theatre group to break into song in a public place like Union Station!
Again thanks for participating in the dialog! Stay involved!

]]> Comment on Chip & the Block – The Art of Criticism by Sarah http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/chip-the-block-the-art-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-17384 Sarah Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:03:42 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3104#comment-17384 Very interesting. Am I blogging to share my personal experience, or to critique the work for others to know about? In a strange way, I think it's both simultaneously. I have always kept a personal journal that includes detailed accounts of my theatrical experiences, because I do my best thinking through writing - working through ideas on the page (or computer screen) rather than aloud. My roommates have been poking and prodding me for the past couple of years to start a blog, since apparently (or hopefully, at least) I have something interesting and different to say. It's really enjoyable for me sharing these semi-personal reviews in a more public space - and even better when the dialogue enters into this wider theater community via sites like Bitter Lemons! Love the quote. Shall we burst into "Best of All Possible Worlds" from Candide? ;) Very interesting. Am I blogging to share my personal experience, or to critique the work for others to know about? In a strange way, I think it’s both simultaneously. I have always kept a personal journal that includes detailed accounts of my theatrical experiences, because I do my best thinking through writing – working through ideas on the page (or computer screen) rather than aloud. My roommates have been poking and prodding me for the past couple of years to start a blog, since apparently (or hopefully, at least) I have something interesting and different to say. It’s really enjoyable for me sharing these semi-personal reviews in a more public space – and even better when the dialogue enters into this wider theater community via sites like Bitter Lemons!

Love the quote. Shall we burst into “Best of All Possible Worlds” from Candide? ;)

]]> Comment on Chip & the Block – The Art of Criticism by John http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/chip-the-block-the-art-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-17383 John Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:06:12 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3104#comment-17383 Sarah, thanks for the great comment. It is interesting to me because you bring up the very real point that your critical observations are an integral part of your process. Like Jesse you see critique as a possible path to change/evolution/improvement. What interests me about what you wrote is when you say, "Blogging allows me to imbue myself in the work a bit more, to record memorable experiences and connections that I make to the work that I encounter. All criticism is subjective, after all." I am so often reminded of a principal in physics, the heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that the act of observation interferes with the outcome. For me, in regards to artistic process, I believe that observation IS the outcome. Also I would ask, are you blogging to share your personal experience, or to critique the work for others to know about? One last thing, as I am fond of saying to jesse, "an optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, and a pessimist fears this is true." lol Sarah, thanks for the great comment. It is interesting to me because you bring up the very real point that your critical observations are an integral part of your process. Like Jesse you see critique as a possible path to change/evolution/improvement. What interests me about what you wrote is when you say, “Blogging allows me to imbue myself in the work a bit more, to record memorable experiences and connections that I make to the work that I encounter. All criticism is subjective, after all.” I am so often reminded of a principal in physics, the heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that the act of observation interferes with the outcome. For me, in regards to artistic process, I believe that observation IS the outcome. Also I would ask, are you blogging to share your personal experience, or to critique the work for others to know about? One last thing, as I am fond of saying to jesse, “an optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, and a pessimist fears this is true.” lol

]]> Comment on Chip & the Block – The Art of Criticism by Sarah http://bitter-lemons.com/2010/03/chip-the-block-the-art-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-17382 Sarah Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:46:30 +0000 http://bitter-lemons.com/?p=3104#comment-17382 My two cents on this fascinating post ... I am a PhD student in Theater at UCLA, and I recently started my theater blog (staylorellis.wordpress.com) for several reasons. I already kept a journal of my theater experiences, but I started blogging to elaborate on my thoughts and share these shorter, more personal, less scholarly pieces with a wider audience. (Writing these blog reviews is, ironically, a nice break from the sort of cultural theory-invested articles that I write for the PhD program.) Blogging allows me to imbue myself in the work a bit more, to record memorable experiences and connections that I make to the work that I encounter. All criticism is subjective, after all. Like Jesse, I am an idealist and optimist. I like to see the *good* in things. I sometimes feel that long-term theater critics have lost that enchantment in the theater; criticism is little more than a job. But I'm in it to enjoy it, appreciate it, and learn from it. Perhaps most importantly, I am a musical theater composer in addition to a critic - and thinking through what "works" and "doesn't work" about particular productions is part of my creative process. I really do think it can lead to better art. My two cents on this fascinating post … I am a PhD student in Theater at UCLA, and I recently started my theater blog (staylorellis.wordpress.com) for several reasons. I already kept a journal of my theater experiences, but I started blogging to elaborate on my thoughts and share these shorter, more personal, less scholarly pieces with a wider audience. (Writing these blog reviews is, ironically, a nice break from the sort of cultural theory-invested articles that I write for the PhD program.) Blogging allows me to imbue myself in the work a bit more, to record memorable experiences and connections that I make to the work that I encounter. All criticism is subjective, after all. Like Jesse, I am an idealist and optimist. I like to see the *good* in things. I sometimes feel that long-term theater critics have lost that enchantment in the theater; criticism is little more than a job. But I’m in it to enjoy it, appreciate it, and learn from it. Perhaps most importantly, I am a musical theater composer in addition to a critic – and thinking through what “works” and “doesn’t work” about particular productions is part of my creative process. I really do think it can lead to better art.

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