What’s the Real 411 on PLAYS411? – Part Two

This is the second part of a two part story on the Los Angeles Ticketing and Marketing Agency PLAYS411.

When last I left you I had just received an unsolicited phone call from Leigh Fortier, Owner/CEO/President of Plays411

Now please understand, I have never spoken to Leigh, never done any business with her whatsoever, and to be perfectly honest had never even heard her name before in my entire life. But she was on me like white on rice. Apparently, she had heard I was doing a story on her company and she wanted to head me off at the pass. Fair enough. We chatted, or rather Leigh talked and I listened, occasionally offering a question here and there and telling her I was about to head into the grocery store to buy some food for my kid and that I didn’t like to talk on the phone when I was in public places. She didn’t seem to hear that and kept right on rambling.  She named Bill Brecker personally and said that he was upset because his show didn’t draw an audience or reviews and that she had basically convinced one of the reviewers who HAD come NOT to post a negative review on the show.  She was, to put it mildly, a bit disparaging of Bill Brecker and felt that his complaints were basically sour grapes because his show was unsuccessful.  She was stating her case before I even had a chance to bring it before the court. I told her I was just in the initial stages of my story and that I would call her the following week. She thought that would work, e-mailed me her phone number and I went into the grocery store to kill some game for my offspring.

Interesting.

I decided to check out the Plays411 site.  Everything seemed in order.  One section for producers of theatre, the other for patrons.  The producer section was a bit clutter-some, not the most streamlined, and there was a distinct scattershot trying-to-cover-all-bases type of feel to the site.  The patron section was better.  I was able to move myself around the site looking at the shows with their review blurbs and ticket opportunities.  In the producer section, the only real monies mentioned were the basic packages which included phone and web sales of regular and discount tickets, ranging from $100 to “3.5% removed from the sales of each settlement check” – whatever the hell that was – but the most interesting thing I noticed on the site was this: THERE WERE NO “TERMS AND CONDITIONS”.

That’s right.

When I clicked on the “Terms and Conditions” tab at the bottom of the site, it took me right back to the home page.  Where were the “Terms and Conditions”?  Certainly a contractual ticketing agency would have a standard procedure for their business, right?  Something that told you when the monies would be disbursed, their general policies? Could have been an oversight, certainly. Maybe it was something that was a work in progress?  Or it could have been a conscious choice.  After all, if you don’t post any specific standard “Terms and Conditions” for your clients, that allows you to adjust them as you see fit according to the client.

Interesting and more interesting.

Then I started to get a whole bunch of messages “off-list” and what struck me as extremely odd is that most of these people had no interest in going on the record with their names.  What were they scared of?  Well, I suppose they just didn’t want to get involved, didn’t want to burn any bridges, seem like whiners, or unprofessional.  But why contact me then?  Did Plays411 have something on them? This part of the story frustrated me. I’m not a big fan of the unattributed source in today’s journalism.  You know the kind, “A Senior White House Source says…”  I believe it leaves too much room for hearsay and speculation. If you have something to say, put your name behind it and let your word stand for something, right?

An example: I played soccer in college.  We had a pretty good team, but our coach was awful.  Nice guy, liked me a lot, made me captain of the team, we got along famously.  But he sucked as a coach. He brought the team down by his incompetence.  After my Sophomore year I was interviewed by the College paper and asked about the coach.  I thought about letting it slide, or offering my opinion and keeping my name back, but I didn’t.  I told them the truth as I saw it and put my name behind it. He was fired the next year.  And he and I never spoke again.  But the team got better with the next coach. It was the difficult thing to do, but it was the right thing to do.

“So why use unattributed information then,” you might ask?  Because it would leave out an essential element to the story. So with held nose, here are a couple of the unattributed comments I received:

My only personal experience with Plays 411, has been one of insincere business relationship. I have made two appointments to meet with Leigh, and she in term made two to meet with me and she never kept any of them. What I have heard from several people, is that they are very pressuring in their contract negotiation, very slow paying on their ticket service and not entirely concerned with the advancement of theatre if it interferes with the advancement of their own interest.  Most of this could be attributed to being wily business people, except for the slow pay. To date, of all the people that have cared to share their thoughts with me, only one was complementary.  As to why people use them, I suspect it has more to do with being they were, and I do mean were, the first real effort to meet marketing ticketing and general services specifically for the theatre community. There are so many better outlets today, but our community is slow to learn of new opportunity if it does not immediately affect their art. Business is not the first concern, and a willingness to trust someone regardless of past experience and reputation is easier then the alternative, which is research.

And this:

Basically, for one show (years ago), it took so long to get our money from them that we nearly couldn’t pay our rent. Because we decided to do all online sales through them – half and full price – they had the bulk of our income for our briskly-selling show … nearly a month’s rent worth. They kept swearing that they’d mailed checks … we’d verify the address … they’d re-send, they said. (Mind you, we were not having trouble getting our mail from anyone else at this point). Time would pass, no checks. Which is how this kept snowballing into them owing us SO much money. My biggest problem through this was the difficulty in getting hold of them. If I ever needed to reach someone at LASA, Goldstar, Stubdog, or Tix.com (all vendors I’ve used), it’s never been an issue. Emails get responded to, phones get answered or calls returned in a timely fashion. With Plays411 … not so much. Finally Leigh gave me her cell phone number – and even then, I’d still be waiting forever for a return call. Eventually, I had to schlep myself down to their office on Wilshire (in afternoon traffic) in order to pick up my checks (which were left in an envelope outside their door, since they were already gone for the day, which they said up front would be the case.) Frankly, if it were me running the business, I’d have done it the other way around. While I was grateful that I finally had the money, I did feel that it should have been them turning cartwheels to get it to ME, rather than the other way round.

Harsh, to say the least.

But now here comes the ATTRIBUTED off-list comments. This was a more mixed bag.  First the positive.

This was from Kevin Arkadie, a writer/producer who first worked with Leigh Fortier back in the late 90′s on a show when Plays411 had not quite been born yet:

Leigh did a fantastic job of producing UP THE MOUNTAIN. There were lots of awards for this small production. Small theatre is very difficult to produce anywhere and Leigh was expert in all areas, as far as I’m concerned. I was there at the moment that the idea of Plays 411 was conceived — Theatix was handling my tickets for the production of UP THE MOUNTAIN and they shut their doors after the last Sunday afternoon/evening performances owing me several thousand dollars (as well as other productions around town). I felt that Theatix must have known they were going to shut down and purposely waited till receiving the weekend’s grosses to shout “we’re out of business!” Leigh thought it was wrong the way that went down and decided to create Plays 411. My opinion is that Plays 411 would never behave in such a way, Leigh has too much respect for her clients…even, it seems to me, the ones that have no respect for her.

Since that production of UP THE MOUNTAIN, I have used Plays 411 for ticket sales and PR, consulting and advice for an event (or two, I can’t remember) to raise funds for organizations such as FREDERICK DOUGLASS CREATIVE ARTS CENTER in New York City.

I have used Plays 411 for tickets to a special screening of FESPACO, a documentary I produced in 2008. I’m waiting for my IMDB page, which is on the way.

I have lots of irons in the fire, film-wise, TV-wise, and legit stage. I consult Leigh for the best, most practical marketing and PR advice on all my projects and I’m hoping to produce a stage play later this year and she will be my producer and Plays 411 will sell the tickets. I have no worries in that area. I know how ridiculously honest she is.

In my relationship with Leigh, which is now at 14 years, I have found: Leigh is the most honest person I know. Leigh has the highest degree of integrity of anyone I know.

I sent a message to Kevin asking him whether Leigh had contacted him and asked him to respond to me or whether he had heard I was working on the story and stepped forward of his own accord.

Kevin never responded.

Then came this message from playwright Robert Riechel Jr of the play “Eat the Runt” fame:

I wanted to comment on my experience with plays 411. Last yr…wow, wait…late ‘08 it was … I got the shinny idea to mount a play that I had written. So, in my fashion, I went at it thoroughly. Also in my fashion, doing so, playing the “guy who knows little and says to much” kinna attitude. What better way to learn I figure. People do love to tell you all when then think their smarter than you. I digress. I knew that to have any chance of growing an audience with a non-musical-mine was a drama-from a new playwright and no name actors was at the very least…difficult. So I went digging. For everything. Including a good PR team. I found it at my 3rd stop, Plays 411. I have to say, they were, and are, my new piece is having its world premier in late March, heads up and relentless. Plays 411 never promised my piece would ever get one person or one critic to attend only that they would work theirs to the bone to get the word out. And they did just that. Critics did come and every time one confirmed they were as excited about that as I wanted to be. But it wasn’t just Plays 411, it was the play. People liked it. A lot. And that helped built momentum. And that momentum got more critics to come. And Plays 411 kept beating at their doors. I had to be professional with their crew. I had to have my press releases done and well done and not change them 3 or 4 or 5 times…critics don’t like this…its unprofessional. And why should they. Hell 700 new shows I think open and run in LA every year. Christ, I’d get tired too. I had to make sure that seats were available and on and on. It was me working with them. And, the show has to be good. Or watchable at the very least. These guys at 411 never said they could get this person or that person to see my show. Never.They never said they could get asses in the seats. They told me straight out and up…this is this and this is what we do. We don’t promise. But we promise to work hard. And they did and are. Hell, they tossed in so much stuff above and beyond what I paid for I’m still eating red meat… sometimes that is, after all, it’s the theater we’re talking about here. Perhaps the folks to ask about plays 411, besides people like me, are the critics themselves.

I asked Robert the same question I asked Kevin. He said he had NOT been contacted by Leigh but had heard I was working on the story from a friend and decided to reach out.  Thanks, Robert!

Now here comes a not-so-positive attributed opinion. This from Jeff Scott, Webmaster and Host of the website AmericanMusicals:

After reading the numerous posts on the big cheap theatre newsgroup (about Plays411.com) I wish to add my story.

First a brief history: While working for an entertainment attorney in LA (1994), I began to compile mass amounts of theatre related contact info, which eventually led me to create my free-to-use website AmericanMusicals.com (the premiere site of it’s kind in CA). I felt a need to freely exchange my info with others working and creating theatre, specifically musicals, in Los Angeles. And as we know, theatre should bring people with a common love for the arts together in the spirit of collaboration.

When I launched my site, there wasn’t a single theatre website that provided the contact information I did… no LA Stage Alliance, no Backstage West online, no Goldstar, no LA County Arts, and NO Plays.411.

I began to learn basic web design, and in the Spring of 1998 my site went live. I printed up a simple brochure, and snail-mailed it to all the theatres I had listings for (requesting that they send me updated information and additional services they may want listed). The site’s listings built quickly, and I received many wonderful comments, and thanks from my fellow theatre folk for creating the site .

Eventually I did start charging a one-time-only set-up fee ($15.00, the same nominal price I still charge) due to the fact that I had every kid in the world wanting their hopes a dreams posted on my site. The fee was only to discern which submissions were real services which would be useful to those searching my site.

At the same time, I was a member of Theatre NEO, which produced out of The Hudson Backstage Theatre (Mng. by Lee Fortier).

During a rehearsal at the Hudson, Ms. Fortier overheard me speaking of my website. She was quite impressed with what I had achieved, and said she used my site often.

Over the next few weeks, she spoke to me regularly about my site, and her possible interest in working with me to building it into something more. We took several meetings together, including a lunch meeting with her business partner, to map out what we could do together to expand my site and it’s services.

Then just as quick as the talks started, they stopped. My calls and -mails were never returned. Eventually I decided she must have decided not to move forward with the project.

I continued to expand the categories within my site, add new listings and even started listing services outside Los Angeles County, and the states. To this day my site gets an average of 1800 visitors a week (a lot for a small niche site like mine with no advertising).

So imagine my surprise when (months later), Ms. Fortie launched PLAYS411.com! And if that wasn’t enough, their original website seemed to list all the exact same information I had worked so hard to compile. I guess to copy and paste my info was cheaper that bringing me in as a business partner.

I am not interested in expanding my site to include production services (like PLAYS411 has done), and I do understand that inventors often expand on someone elses product to create their own, even better service. But the fact that I was courted, dinned, took meetings, and then just disposed of was quite disheartening (especially within the theatre community I love so much).

I wish them well with their service, however I’m not surprised to hear of the problems people are having with them. If you’re willing to “borrow” a business template to create your own company, what else are you capable of.

To this day, my site is free to use, and I (still) pay all expenses to keep it running (because what you get out of a life in the theatre is only worth what you contribute).

Sincerely, Jeff Scott
Host/Webmaster of www.AmericanMusicals.com

Hmmm. I contacted Jeff and asked for more. He simply offered this:

Plays411 borrowed my business template…some call that stealing.

Not much grey area there. But then again, one might just call this “wily business” by Leigh, or even some good old American “hustling”.  Nothing illegal. Could just be sour grapes on Jeff’s part, right?

But something still seemed missing here.  So I moved on.

I contacted a Jerry Ryan, an accountant/producer who has worked on and off with Plays411 over the years and specifically had worked on Rick Culbertson’s show Divorce, the Musical.  He said he had “nothing bad to say about Plays411″.   And that was about it.

Fair enough.  I moved on.

Or I TRIED to move on.

Immediately after speaking to Jerry my phone again rang with a “withheld” number.  I had company over at my home, so I didn’t answer.  It rang two more times and I finally answered.

It was Leigh Fortier again.

She proceeded to launch into an answer for a question I never asked.  Something about how it was the box office’s fault that payments were so slow over at the Hudson.  She seemed to be referencing the show that Rick Culbertson had produced.  I was confused and told her so and also told her I couldn’t talk because I had company over.  She didn’t seem to hear this and continued on. I finally stopped her short and told her I couldn’t talk to her and the next time we spoke would be when I called her and was prepared to ask her some specific questions.  She said okay and we left it at that.

I tried to contact Gary Blumsack, her past partner over at the Hudson. He didn’t return my call but instead had one of his producing partners at the Hayworth Theatre, Donna Hyams, contact me instead. We had a nice conversation and Donna’s final analysis was that they have never had any problems with Plays411. Theirs was a longstanding relationship, monies were paid promptly, communication was excellent, Leigh is and always was a trooper.

Okay.  Solid.

I contacted a Robert Baggani who used to be the Treasurer at the Wadsworth working for RichMark Entertainment and was currently a ticket seller for the Pantages.  Robert said he had researched Plays411 years ago for a possible partnership but opted out because he felt their e-mail blasting was too cumbersome for their patrons. When pressed Robert also added that he thought it odd that Plays411 billed itself as a “ticketing agency” yet sold discount tickets. “Ticketing agencies”, he said, “were ticket brokers and basically sold tickets for more than the price of the actual ticket. That’s what ticketing agencies do”, he said. “Discount Ticket companies do something different. They sell reduced price tickets.” He mentioned that he worked with Goldstar and found them to be an excellent company. Paid weekly, a fairly low ticket fee for patrons, quick communication, terms and conditions standard for everyone.

Lots and lots of opinion.  On and on it went.  There were some complaints about the phone system and how Plays411-sponsored shows had some automated voice asking patrons to give them credit card numbers over the phone. A horrific-sounding ordeal to say the least. There were the complaints about the lack of communication, phone messages not being responded to for weeks. There were complaints about companies being forced to use Plays411 as their ticketing agency when they produced at the Hudson even if they had another choice in mind.  Complaints, complaints, complaints.

And yet, business seemed pretty good over there at Plays411.

But what to glean from it all?

I decided to head over to Rick Culbertson’s site and check out his post on Ticketing Agencies – as he had offered.  Here’s what Rick had to say on the subject:

Let’s say you get hired for a new job. On your first day you head down to HR and they tell you that you will be paid every two weeks. But, your first check will not come until around your sixth week and they are going to hold some of your salary every week and pay it to you after you quit.

That sounds crazy right? So why would you accept these payment terms from your ticketing company?

Who was he talking about?   As I said, when I contacted Rick he refused to comment. But I did my research. Rick has done one show in this town. It was Divorce, the Musical over at the Hudson. And the Hudson only uses one ticketing agency. PLAYS411.  Hmmm.  Here’s more from Rick:

Be careful of theaters that make you use ticketing companies in which they have an ownership stake. It’s one thing for a theater to contract with a specific ticketing company. But it’s another thing when they own that company. You wouldn’t want your apartment’s landlord to get your paycheck, deduct the rent, and then send you what’s leftover, right? It’s none of your landlord’s business how much money you make, and it certainly isn’t their place to be taking that money directly from your employer. Don’t make that bad deal with a theater.

And his concluding advice:

Finally, because it’s important, I will remind you: IT’S YOUR MONEY. Don’t let someone else make money on your money. If a ticket company holds your checks for longer than a week or two, they are making interest on your money. If a ticket company tells you that it takes more than a week to process your payment, its time to get a new ticketing company. Don’t be bullied or fooled.

So what do we make of this?  And is Plays411 the only game in town?

Well the answer to the latter is a resounding “No”.  As I mentioned before, there are numerous companies in the mix now, Goldstar, Stubdog, Brown Paper Tickets, Performing Arts Live, to name a few, but the most intriguing of the bunch came from the LA Stage Alliance.  I had heard they were close to instituting some new-fangled ticketing model so I decided to check in and see what it was all about.

I contacted Doug Clayton over at LA Stage Alliance and this was his response:

Rather than coming into the performing arts marketplace with yet another ticketing system – full price, discount or otherwise – LA Stage Alliance has taken a bigger-picture approach to the issue of technology services for arts organizations.  LA Stage has been, in conjunction with several major foundations and national corporate leaders in the technology field, developing a CRM (Customer Relationship Management) system that integrates all databases (ticketing, donations, e-marketing, office operations, etc.) within an arts organization – much like the six-figure systems in place at Center Theatre Group, LA Opera, etc – except with vastly lower costs and IT requirements.

The comprehensive database system includes, among many components, a ticketing system comparable to other ticketing systems in the market now.  The major differences would be that this new system is a comprehensive CRM system with a ticketing component, not just a bulked up ticketing system, and that the service fees on ticket sales go to support the broader database system and LA Stage Alliance (a non-profit serving the community), instead of just a ticketing system and profits for the shareholders/owners.

Intriguing, maybe, but not the story at hand.

So I ask again, after reading all of this that I’ve laid out for you, “What do we make of all this?”  Is this how Plays411 does business? Do they charge Peter to pay Paul while keeping Patrick on hold? Once they have your business are they on to the next customer?  Or is all this smoke just simple cases of miscommunication, clashes of personalities, sour grapes?

Well, we won’t know, because as I said at the beginning of this article, Leigh Fortier refused to do my face-to-face interview.  And it’s too bad, because I can’t help feeling that something is still missing from this piece as I write it – and now I know what that something is: THE FULL STORY.  I was hoping to be able to bring that to you, Lemon Heads, but Leigh Fortier has made that impossible.

Nevertheless, I’ll let Leigh have the last word here, this via her final e-mail to me after she told me she wouldn’t be meeting with me in person:

Hi Colin

I too am sorry if I seem in any way as being difficult.

But truthfully, I have heard a great deal of feedback that your interviews or communications with people have left them feeling you had a specific interest in displaying Plays411 in a negative light.

If that is the case, you would have had to hear someone’s complaints that we failed to provide something we stated we’d do.
As I wrote before, we are a service industry and have had nearly 6,000 clients. I would not be able to address any complaint without the ability to research that complaint. Thus, I respectfully request again, that you send those questions in writing.

What I can say to you is this.

Plays411 was created to consult in the theatrical community. We do this in many ways.
The services we offer are listed in our Rates and Services section on our web site.

A typical day here includes:

Helping a first time producer, a seasoned producer, a theatre owner, a box office mgr, a desperate producer who had opened a play and no one is buying tickets so they were sent to us for “help”. A writer who wants to know where they can get their play produced, an actor who wonders which theatre company they should join; if any. A producer who does not know what it means to “ upload a graphic image” and why won’t the PDF image work when it needs to be a jpg. Perhaps most importantly, a patron who is 84 years old and does not have a friend in the world so she wants to know what play to see and by the time you hang up the phone she asks “would it be ok if I call you again”.

Not one of these people want to feel their time is not valuable; because it is. Their needs, however small, are very important to them. It requires great commitment, skill and authentic concern for our clients to keep them happy. I’d like to think we make 100% of those people happy. Our percentage of repeat business and company growth indicates were are very close. I can certainly say that it is our goal. Truly.

All the best
Leigh

It’s your call, Lemon Heads.